Mary Hill, iconographer and former Chief Mission Officer of Avera Health, joins Inside Out to discuss the importance of connectedness and how she began the spiritual practice of painting icons.
Darren Henson (00:13):
Hi, I'm Darren Henson, and this is Inside Out a podcast series by the Catholic Health Association on the inner life and spirituality of leaders across the healing ministry. I'm joined today by Mary Hill, who for many years, you were the Chief Mission Officer at Avera Health, Sioux Falls, South Dakota. But for well over two decades you had service in Catholic health care ministries. Mary, I thought it was interesting you came into health care in an ethics role with Ascension at St. Vincent's, but interestingly before all that you had a nursing background and you are an attorney. You worked for many years as a staff attorney. And so while all of that I think is really fascinating background to the uniqueness and the complexity of who you are as an amazing individual, the motivation of this podcast is to get a little bit of a glimpse into leaders of Catholic health care, into perhaps what was stirring within you at different times in your life. So, I'm wondering, Mary, just maybe as we begin, what is spirituality for you? How do you understand that?
Mary Hill (01:22):
Well, at this point in my life, Darren, I'm in my sixties, and so spirituality is really about connection and relationship. And for me, I experienced my spirituality as a yearning, I would say a yearning for connection with God, certainly with others, with myself. So greater self-awareness with God's creation and then also that ongoing yearning. I think we all feel for meaning and purpose. So, what is it that I bring into the world? What giftedness has God bestowed upon me? And am I using those gifts for the betterment of the human family, for the betterment of creation?
Darren Henson (02:07):
Wow. Yeah, you set that up so nicely, Mary. There's a lot there that we can unpack in this conversation, but I'm hearing you say this sense of yearning for connection with oneself, with others and creation, and then also, like you said, also a yearning for deeper connection with God. And it's interesting, I mean, you started at this stage in my life. So, I imagine perhaps you're suggesting there that spirituality grows and changes throughout life and maybe going back to your formative years, even as a youth, were there seeds of spirituality that you experienced then and or that shaped part of your own spiritual journey through the years?
Mary Hill (02:52):
Yes, there were and there continue to be. So, as I reflect back, I was born into a Catholic family and my mom, she was a very deeply spiritual and religious faithful Catholic woman who has been my role model throughout her life. She died last year, and I still experience her presence with us, which is a great comfort. So, growing up, I attended Catholic schools, and so there was all of the formal structures around spirituality. And I guess back in those days we didn't talk about spirituality. We talked about our religion,
(03:34):
Our Catholic religion, so attending Catholic school, mass, the sacraments. My mom, she taught me to pray the rosary, and we prayed the rosary at home. And I remember as a child, I think we all have our image of God. And of course mine was the old man with the long white beard. And the Catholic school I attended, I think the church might've been built in the '60s, and it had these wooden slats above the altar. There were organ pipes, but they were hidden behind these wooden slats. And I remember being in mass and I thought that the old white man, God with a long white beard, was up there watching me through the spaces between the slats. So, that was my vision and experience of God. And then when I was maybe 10 or 11, we were driving west to visit the farm where my mom grew up in Western Iowa.
(04:37):
So, I was raised in Cleveland, and the suburbs around Cleveland are very green. It's actually called the Emerald Necklace because there's so many beautiful parks that are all along the southern coast of Lake Erie. And so, I grew up in a neighborhood that had a lot of trees and everywhere you looked were leaves and branches. So, we're driving out to Western Iowa and suddenly I'm confronted with the prairie and this vast expanse of treeless grass and crops and the skies. I remember just being so captivated by these endless skies and the amazing cloud formations like I'd never seen before. And that was my first experience of God and the cosmos. I knew that God was not in the church behind the wooden slats. God was in creation in nature, and I felt this amazing connection. I still can see it like sitting in the backseat of the old black Chevy as we barreled down Highway 40 and realizing that God was amidst all of this beauty.
Darren Henson (05:52):
When you were describing the slats over the organ pipes, I remember seeing exact same thing. I hadn't thought about that image for a very long time. And I love the journey that you just painted of, and at least our Catholic tradition that you and I share, the religion has its own practices, right? Its own habits, whether it's the sacraments and whether it's mass. And we sometimes see that as separate from spirituality, but obviously it feeds our spirit. And there is a connection there. I mean, yes, there's a ritual, there's bodily rhythms that go to that of standing and sitting and listening and kneeling and processing, but all of that is to feed a spirituality. And then you took that full to a new horizon, literally when you said, when we drove out onto the prairie then, and you saw this massive expanse that you had a new awareness of God. And it was reminding me of some of the great writers and thinkers who describe God as that infinite horizon because when you get out to the prairie as you are driving, the horizon keeps expanding. You never finally get there. There's always a new horizon that emerges.
(07:19):
And that's exactly what you were saying earlier about this yearning. You want to go venture more to the horizon.
Mary Hill (07:27):
And I have known people who find God in the forest or experience God in the ocean or on bodies of water. And I certainly now having had my own experience, can appreciate that. And yet I have never experienced God in the forest or on the ocean I have in that expansiveness of the prairie. And the other place that I had a very significant experience of God was in the desert.
(07:56):
So, my brother and sister-in-law were married out in Tucson, and it was January and I remember it was 1990 January of 90. So, I flew out to Phoenix and I rented a car and they happened to give me a car with the sunroof. I came from this real snowy, Midwestern cold weather to Phoenix. I'm driving down Highway 10 in my car with the sunroof open. And it was just so incredibly beautiful. And again, that expansiveness and those endless skies and the cloud formations. And I remember that weekend as I was enjoying their wedding festivities, thinking one day I will live here because I really made a very significant connection with the desert.
Darren Henson (08:44):
Yeah, yeah. It's almost like the expansiveness that's encountered in a place like the prairie or the desert calls forth a response for our own self, I think. Right. Maybe to be expansive, to open up to enlarge and perhaps our fuller, more natural selves to come forward.
Mary Hill (09:11):
Yeah, I hadn't thought about it in those terms, and I like that.
Darren Henson (09:16):
Yeah. What does the expansiveness do for you when you see that expansiveness? What do you feel like is evoked within you?
Mary Hill (09:26):
I don't know that I can articulate in words. I do have a very significant memory of understanding what it means to be in a thin space. Have you ever heard that term where it's like the veil between heaven and earth or time bound life and eternity is very almost transparent and you experience living into that eternity? Maybe that's what you are describing is living in eternal time.
(09:58):
And that is what both the prairie and the desert have meant to me. And fortunately, in my adult life and just the past 20 years, I've been able to experience living both in the desert and on the prairie. I mean, most recently I've been serving at Avera in South Dakota, and I've done a lot of reading of authors, spiritual authors who talk about both of those geographies as being very evocative of their spirituality. So, when I was living in... so, my husband and I had an opportunity to move to Tucson actually with a position I had with Ascension when Ascension owned a ministry in Southern Arizona. And during that time, I was attending Aquinas Institute of Theology for my Master of Arts and Healthcare Mission. And I was... so we were doing a lot of reading and writing papers. I just happened to be attending a parish, which is still our parish, at a Redemptorist retreat center in the mountains. And they have a library that's very extensive collection, and they have an entire section of Thomas Merton's writings. And so, I read a lot of Merton while I was out there and continue. I mean, New Seeds of Contemplation is one of the most life-changing books I've ever read, and I've read it numerous times. It's got a lot of highlighting and notes, and then I have the audio book as well, so I can listen to it and just kind of be refreshed.
(11:33):
And then interestingly, while I was in Tucson, someone recommended Cloister Walk by Kathleen Norris, and that's the story of a woman. She's a poet and she's not a Catholic, and got connected with a Benedictine monastery, became a Benedictine Oblate. And she writes this beautiful book about just kind of the Benedictine rhythms like you were describing and the sense of balance. And then after I read that book, I read Dakota, which is again, it's about that experience of God and the vastness and the emptiness of the prairie. And it just was so captivating to me. And having had my experiences out on my mom's home farm in Iowa, I could certainly relate to that. And then I had an opportunity to work in the Dakotas with Catholic health care.
Darren Henson (12:31):
So you were reading Dakota, which is by Kathleen Norris, I believe.
Mary Hill (12:34):
Correct, yes.
Darren Henson (12:35):
So you had read that before you went to Avera?
Mary Hill (12:39):
Before I went to Avera, and interestingly, I've recently retired, so now I have a little more time to read and do things that are not task oriented or having to have a definitive purpose. And I just listened to the audio book again, and it was really great because now I knew all these different places she spoke about, and actually one of the communities of women religious that she mentions in the book sponsor Avera. So that was kind of a fun connection. Wow.
Darren Henson (13:12):
Wow. Are there things that you hold onto having just revisited that book? Is there anything in particular that you really just kind of cherish from the book? Any passage or image?
Mary Hill (13:25):
Yeah, that's a great question. She talks about the community of persons on the prairie and how neighborly they are in realizing that in that vastness and that sparsity of population, how much people rely on each other. And I've very much experienced that living in the upper Midwest, the neighborliness. And although people live in cities, I live in Sioux Falls, and that's one of the larger, I mean, it's the biggest city in South Dakota. Many people grew up on farm and ranches, and you still see that neighborliness in the neighborhoods, in the suburbs, and in the urban areas
(14:11):
Where people, and when I first moved out there, I just thought it was a honeymoon period because people were so nice and helpful, and even at the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, everybody was nice and there was no line. And I just thought I was in an alternative reality and it never ended. I mean, that's how it is in the upper Midwest, just this sense of community and looking out for each other. There is a very independent spirit. It's a paradox like all of us in everything. So there's, during COVID, many people didn't want to wear a mask or get a vaccine, and yet those were the very people who were going to make sure that you had everything you needed, and if you got stuck in the snow, they were going to bring their pickup and their chains and get you out.
Darren Henson (14:58):
Right, right.
Mary Hill (14:59):
Yeah.
Darren Henson (15:00):
But this sense of connectedness, I am really relishing these images. You're painting for us, Mary, of the vastness of the upper Midwest in the Dakotas, the expansiveness as you're talking about it. But yet even in that expansiveness, I think you used the word paradox, there's this deep sense of connectedness with one another, really beautiful there, that our spirituality, as you were saying earlier, it's yearning for deeper connection with myself, but also in what you've gleaned from Kathleen Norris's work, this connection that we have to and with one another. And even with nature, I've been thinking about this too. I happen to live in the city as well, and I love it when I too can get into the car and drive between cities, if you will, to get beyond the buildings, to get beyond. And it happens to also be in the Midwest, to get out into the fields and the prairie. And there is just an opening that I experience within me as well that by seeing, as you said, beyond just the immediate tree line in front of me, there's something that taps into a greater sense of openness for myself. Now, I also happen to be from the Midwest, so hopefully some of our listeners experience this and other people, as you acknowledge, do it in other ways, whether it's the forest or whether it's the ocean, whether it's some other geography. But geographies have an impact on our own inner selves, I think, at times.
Mary Hill (16:42):
Absolutely. Yeah. A friend of mine from Avera received, he was telling us about how when he was in college, he won a scholarship and he went over to study in England, and he said he felt so claustrophobic because it was in a city and there were so many buildings around and trees and things. And he said when he flew back to the United States and flew back to South Dakota, as soon as he saw the prairie out the plane window, he just had an exhale of relief that he was back in that spaciousness because the spirituality of that geography was so much a part of who he is.
Darren Henson (17:24):
Yeah, neat, neat, neat. I'm also mindful that in the tradition, even in philosophical traditions, in many different theological traditions, God can be articulated as that, which is good, the all good, that which is true, the source of all truth. But the third one is beauty, the beautiful.
(17:52):
And I think nature seems to do that for you and for many of us, that when we get out into nature, when you saw these beautiful expansive fields in Iowa as a young person, there was something that kind of took your breath away. Yes. And spirit is breath in many of the world's languages that there's no real difference there between what the spirit is and does. And our own breathing. God breathed life into the first original humans and gave us a spirit. And when we're out in nature and we take a breath like, wow, this is different. We're tapping into that spirituality, I think.
Mary Hill (18:38):
Yeah. I read an article one time that was entitled, “A Breathing Jesus,” and it talked about certain elements are so stable that the molecules don't change over millennia, and so we might be breathing the very organ molecules that Jesus breathed. And when you think about the whole, our entire creation of that's organic, that's living or breathing, it's like we're all existing on the same web of the same air. So, you want to talk about being intimate with someone. I mean, you and I are breathing in air, your breathing air, that was just in my lungs and I'm vice versa. So, when you think about how connected that we are despite appearances or our attempts to be in isolation, I mean, I think COVID taught us that the air was carrying that virus, and it could be life giving and it also could be life taking.
Darren Henson (19:44):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. You mentioned COVID and the pandemic times, and a lot of people had, that sparked an opportunity, if you will, for a lot of us to literally stop, take stock of life, disrupted all of our routines and pushed us to consider new routines or fresh things. What helped you through that time?
Mary Hill (20:18):
Oh, that's a great question, and it leads me to one of my favorite topics. So years ago when I knew a physician in Indianapolis who, and I went over to her house and I saw that she was painting icons. If you ever go to Europe or churches, there are these very stylized images of usually saints or Jesus or the Blessed Virgin. And I've always been captivated by icons, even as a young child, they really drew me in. I think the faces are so expressive, the eyes, the expressions. So when I saw that this physician had these icon supplies on her desk, I asked her about it and she said, oh, I take iconography lessons from the Greek Orthodox sisters here in town. And so that was my first understanding of that. I could, as a non-art, learn how to paint icons. And so I said to myself, that's something I'm going to do at some point in my life, learn how to paint an icon. So many years later, it was in 2017, I had a concerning finding on one of my just routine diagnostic tests, medical tests. And so when that happens, it kind of brings you up short and you start thinking about, wow, if I have a serious health issue, I might not have a lot of time left in this life. And so I thought about what's on my bucket list that I've never done. The very first thing that came to mind was learn how to paint an icon.
(21:57):
So I got online and I found an iconography workshop out in New Mexico, and I called out there and this little sister, it was at a Benedictine monastery, and the sister who answered the phone was Sister Scholastica. And I told her I wanted to register for the course, but I might be having some health testing and possibly it was serious and that I might not be able to attend, but I still wanted to make a reservation. So she said, well, we've got your reservation and we're going to pray, and we expect to see you in July. So thankfully the testing all came out that I negative. I did not have the concern that the doctors initially thought. And so in July, I found myself in New Mexico and the foothills of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains. And for a week I learned how to paint an icon, and it was such a wonderful experience.
(22:50):
And icons are considered to be a visual prayer, or sometimes they're called scripture and visual format. And so if anyone knows the Enneagram, I'm a one on the Enneagram. And so iconography, it's a great pursuit for a one because it's very structured and there's kind of a right way to do things, and you follow these certain steps. So I really enjoyed it, and I had great intentions of continuing. So after the retreat, I ordered supplies offline and just got myself all set up, and then life happened and things got busy. And you know how it is in Catholic health care, there's always things to do, and it's more than a 40 hour week.
Darren Henson (23:33):
So that was pre pandemic.
Mary Hill (23:34):
That was pre pandemic.
(23:36):
So then the pandemic hits, and I'm home all weekend, can't go see my mom in the nursing home. And I thought, you know what? I've got those iconography supplies. Why don't I just get those out and see what I can do with them? So that was the beginning of my foray into seriously being an iconographer. So since COVID, I've painted 38 plus icons. So I just started my 39th, and it's just been such a wonderful, challenging, rewarding prayer practice. It's actually a form of contemplative prayer. And you talked about beauty earlier, Darren. So having worked as a nurse and a lawyer, those professions, and even the schooling is very prescribed. You don't have a lot of time in your schedule to take elective courses when you're in nursing school or when you're in law school. So I never took art history or any really CRE courses.
Darren Henson (24:40):
Yes.
Mary Hill (24:40):
So iconography has given me an avenue for exploring a whole facet of the human experience that's really kind of been on the back burner during my professional life.
Darren Henson (24:56):
I can see your face light up as you talk about this, Mary. Yeah, and you're right, so much of modern day professions focus on what is professionally necessary, what are the essential competencies, if you will. And many of our friends in academia and other places would share with us the loosening of the liberal arts in many ways of a liberal arts education. It's really hard to find these days. And it sounds like this iconography practice, this icon practice that you've picked up since COVID is a way really in some ways to bridge those things. Because like you said, it sounds like it's very prescribed in some ways, and yet there's an artistic element to it.
Mary Hill (25:51):
Yes.
Darren Henson (25:51):
Yeah.
Mary Hill (25:53):
Yeah.
Darren Henson (25:53):
Interesting. You have a couple here with you. Do you want to show us and tell us a little bit more about these icons that you have?
Mary Hill (26:01):
Well, I'll ask you to hold St. Thomas Aquinas, and then I have Mary Magdalene. So yes, sir. So I was fortunate to attend Aquinas Institute of Theology here in St. Louis, and...
Darren Henson (26:17):
Hence the doctor here, the great doctor of the church.
Mary Hill (26:20):
Yes. And then Mary Magdalene is also one of their patrons because she's considered one of the first apostles or the apostle, I think Pope Francis calls her the apostle of the apostles because she preached the resurrection first after Christ rose, and she met him at the tomb.
Darren Henson (26:41):
Amazing. Mary, you were mentioning that a lot of these icons come from patterns. Tell us a little bit about some of the symbolism here.
Mary Hill (26:49):
Great. Yeah. So the entire process of painting an icon, and oftentimes it's called writing an icon.
Darren Henson (26:55):
I was wondering about that. I was going to ask you, because I've heard people say that, that you write an icon. You were mentioning earlier that an icon sometimes is seen as scripture that's been visualized.
Mary Hill (27:08):
Exactly. Or a visual prayer.
(27:11):
So since we would write a prayer rather than draw a prayer, we say write, but if I'm talking to a general audience, I'll often just say paint, because everybody understands what you mean when you say paint, and that is still correct. So the whole process of iconography is meant to symbolize what is understood in the Greek tradition or the Greek Orthodox tradition as theosis, which is that because of indwelling grace that has been given to each of us by God, we have the ability through that grace to manifest God's presence and likeness and God's attributes in the world if we are open to conversion and if we stay in relationship with God. So that's what, as you paint or write the icon, you're going through this visual symbolism of theosis, and one of my favorite parts is the halo. So we start that with just a plain white board, and there's a lot of symbology around the board itself and the making of the board.
(28:17):
I don't make my own boards, I order my boards from Eastern Europe on Etsy from craftspeople who are skilled at making these particular icon boards. So with the halo, the first step of the halo is to paint a layer of liquid red clay where the halo goes, and that symbolizes the clay from which God create Adam and Eve. So Adam means red or earth, and so that symbolizes our humankind's earthly nature. And then you talked about the breath of the spirit as giving life and as a reminder of God's indwelling presence. So after the liquid clay dries, then the iconographer takes the board up to our face and we breathe on the clay. So you take a nice deep breath and you breathe on the clay and the moisture and the heat from your breath, it warms and moistens the clay, and that represents God breathing God's spirit into humankind. And then we take very thin sheets of gold leaf and we place it on the clay. And because it's moist from the breath, it'll adhere to the clay. And so that represents the unity of body and spirit. Gold represents the noetic or the godly nature and the clay, of course, the earthly nature. And because we have God's spirit, then we have this dual nature. And so that is what the halo represents, and that's the very first step in creating the icon is that because God had to breathe life into humankind. Wow.
Darren Henson (30:03):
Wow. So you start there.
Mary Hill (30:04):
Yes.
Darren Henson (30:05):
Oh, amazing. What an interesting paradox there too, because we often think the halo comes at the end of life right after one's life, we recognize, oh yeah, no, throughout their life, this person was a holy person. Therefore, we're going to distinguish this person with some sort of halo. But I love the juxtaposition that when you're painting or writing an icon, you're starting with that. And I can actually see the red. There's, for those who are just hearing this on audio, I can see a red lining all the way around the edge of the halo. And that's what you were just saying is where you start with that red clay really is what's giving it that color.
Mary Hill (30:55):
Absolutely. And think about what we say in Catholic health care that our human dignity is that each of us is created in God's image and likeness, and that's from the moment of conception. So like you were saying, it's not at the end of life that you become the unity of body and spirit. It's that conception, and that's what the icon attempts to visualize.
Darren Henson (31:19):
Amazing. Really beautiful, really, really beautiful.
Mary Hill (31:23):
And then throughout the painting process, we layer, so there's many, many layers of paint. You start with a very dark colors, and that kind of represents the initial phase of being created and kind of that chaos. And then we paint lines, which is God's law giving order to chaos. And then we alternate with light layers of paint, which represents our growing into awareness and our growing consciousness of God. And then we as human beings, we're always going to fail. And so then over those light layers, we put a very translucent layer of paint, it's called like a float or a wash that represents God's forgiveness of our human failings. And so as the icon progresses, the colors get lighter and lighter. And so you have the finished form. And the whole idea in iconography is that it's lit from within. It's the spirit of God's light from within us, come shining through. So you don't see painted shadows in iconography because the light comes from within. And often there will be like if you see an icon that has buildings in it, often you'll see those buildings are not in linear perspective, they're in reverse perspective because the idea is that the vanishing point is actually on us, it's God. And the heavenly hosts are looking from the heavenly realm onto us in the earthly life, and they are inviting us into this expansive world of eternity. So maybe that goes back to my love of expanding spaces, because you look at an icon and the perspective expands rather than converges. So I'm just making that connection now.
Darren Henson (33:16):
Because this has been in you?
Mary Hill (33:19):
The whole time.
Darren Henson (33:21):
Yeah, that's powerful, Mary. That's really, really powerful. I'll never look at an icon the same anymore. I can't unsee these things now. Now that what you just shared with us. Thank you. I've long admired icons. I have a few from some contemporary artists that are out there, and there's new ones that are coming up these days that I sometimes see on social media and whatnot.
(33:49):
So it seems like there's perhaps a mini renaissance, if you will, of iconographers and people interested in it. But what really is sticking with me is what you were saying earlier is this process in the Greek of theosis of, and I was sensing that that's something that happens to you, let's say, as the person writing, creating the icon, and it's intended, I think, to be for the one who then sits in front of the icon to contemplate it as well. And that's where, like I said, I won't look at an icon the same anymore, that those different steps that you went through, all these different several steps that you went through of moving from red clay to then gold leaf and then to pigments, and then lighter colors, and not forgetting our own shadow sides and our own god's forgiveness that comes to us, that all of that is embedded in one of these images, and I'm being invited to allow that process to happen within me.
Mary Hill (35:08):
Absolutely. And there's actually a whole theology around icons. It's called iconology. It's the theological. So iconography is the practice, and that is one of the key points is that we come to see God's end dwelling and shining forth in our own selves that hopefully grow in that image and likeness and become more of a God bearer in the world through practicing and iconography. And something that's been really unexpected and exciting for me is that a whole younger generation of people like you talk about social media. Well, I gifted an icon to my daughter, and she's in her thirties, and so many of her friends were just so captivated by it. In fact, I've written icons for the different nieces and nephews now in the family, and their friends want an icon. And I just think that's so wonderful that the younger generation of people is being touched by this ancient form of art and prayer.
Darren Henson (36:14):
Yeah. And you mentioned Eastern Europe. I mean, I think we tend to associate it. It certainly is a lot more prevalent in what loosely I would just reference as the Eastern churches or Greek Orthodox, other Orthodox traditions, if you will. And in many ways, Mary, it's a bit of an ecumenical practice that you have tapped into Pope Francis and some of his predecessors often said that the relationship between the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church is that we need to learn to breathe with both lungs.
Mary Hill (36:57):
Beautiful imagery.
Darren Henson (36:58):
Yeah. This idea that, no, there's a lot of depth there. And really, I think spiritual richness, and this is one of those examples that you've tapped into.
Mary Hill (37:13):
And something else as I thought about us having this conversation today about spirituality was having been formed by communities of women religious in my early formation and education, and then having served so many years in Catholic health care, it's been a privilege that I haven't really even appreciated about being around other persons who are seeking God, who are seeking to grow in their spiritual lives. So that whole communal aspect of developing spirituality and being inspired and urged forward and educated by other persons who are spiritually mature. And so just like an example with iconography, I've got a whole community now of people who are writing icons, and we are connected on social media, and we've seen each other at retreats and workshops. So it's just that having that community and those people to inspire and support the practice has been really important as well.
Darren Henson (38:26):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm so glad you touched upon that, Mary, because that's a part of what we are aiming to inspire across Catholic health ministry is a sense of excitement, of joy, of goodness, of recognizing, yes, we are leaders within Catholic health care and we need and want to support one another in our own spiritual journeys to be mindful of the spiritual connections that we all have, and to carry forward that commitment that our forebearers did, the sisters, the brothers, the founders and founders of our ministries.
Mary Hill (39:11):
Absolutely. And as I'm retiring, I realized I need to stay in touch with my friends in Catholic health care whom I've taken for granted, because we've seen each other at CHA and we work together and we're supporting and inspiring each other's spiritual journeys. And now I'm stepping out of that formal role. And so it's been important for me to have some regularly scheduled Zoom calls and get togethers with persons who've been instrumental in my spiritual growth and to keep that going into retirement because it won't be as readily available if I don't make the effort.
Darren Henson (39:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. You mentioned a couple of times retreat now maybe separate from, you've probably taken retreats that aren't just icon writing retreats, if you will. So tell me about why have retreats been important to you? What's that? When you go on retreat, how would you describe that for someone who's never been on retreat, what's like a typical retreat look like for you, Mary?
Mary Hill (40:29):
Great. Probably the most significant retreat that comes to mind is the centering prayer retreat that I participated in, and it was in the desert at a retreat center, and it was silent. I highly recommend everyone have at least one silent retreat in your life, and especially when working in health care, and we're always in meetings and presenting and talking and doing. So the retreat that I attended it was to teach one how to do centering prayer. They followed the Benedictine model of prayer four times a day that we would meet in the chapel. And I mean, you could opt out. It was very much about -
Darren Henson (41:19):
No one with a ruler there.
Mary Hill (41:20):
Exactly. They were taking attendance. Correct. And for me, it is very challenging for me to be silent and still together, so I can be silent as long as I'm doing something, or I can be still as long as I'm learning something. But to be silent and still at the same time is tough because I'm just like, I'm an ESTJ on Myers-Briggs, and I'm always about, let's get her done. It's got to be productive. So I knew this was going to be a challenge, and it was really liberating, and it was a great start to a practice that it's very powerful and very fruitful in my life, centering prayer. And it's tough to keep committed to it because again, being silent and still together is difficult for me.
(42:16):
But the retreat was wonderful. You got in the rhythm of the centering prayer. There were people to guide you. I mean, they had the singing bowl, and so you kind of just showed up at chapel and you knew you were going to be guided through it. And the thing I found so unusual and so wonderful was you did not talk to anybody at the meals. So you would go to the dining room and the expectation was silence. It totally took the pressure off. I mean, you don't have to make small talk. You don't have to be on for anybody. You're not facilitating. So it was, yeah, it was a wonderful liberation.
Darren Henson (42:53):
You just took the word out of my mouth. I was going to say, it sounds like you found a sense of freedom or liberation, even perhaps as unnerving as it was in the beginning, as you were saying, to be still and silent at the same time. You came to a space of liberation with it to where it was life-giving for you.
Mary Hill (43:15):
Yes.
Darren Henson (43:15):
Yeah. How long is a retreat like that? I am just curious for people who've never been on one before. If you go on a silent retreat, that does sound a little bit daunting. Is it how long?
Mary Hill (43:26):
This was only three days. So it wasn't a whole week.
Darren Henson (43:31):
So a long weekend.
Mary Hill (43:32):
Yes, it would be a long weekend.
Darren Henson (43:33):
Yeah. Well, Mary, as we wrap up, I'm wondering though too, share with us a little bit about how your spirituality supported your work as a leader in Catholic health care. What are your thoughts on that? What advice would you give to a young or a up and coming leader, executive leader in Catholic health care with regards to spirituality?
Mary Hill (44:04):
So I was born in 1962, and of course, being in health care and being visual, I had to make a PowerPoint slide out of it. So I made a PowerPoint slide. I went online and I got the logo. I thought about my life in all these different communities, and I'd even forgotten some of them. So I put my husband and my daughter in the middle, and then I had my three different degrees, my nursing, my law, and my theology degree. And then along around my life journey were all these logos. And then as I was putting the logos on the slide, I thought, why don't I put a virtue or a value I learned from each of these orders? And then I had been at Avera long enough that I could say when I was going to learn from what I had already learned from Presentation sisters and the Benedictine sisters, but all in all were 10 different communities.
(44:59):
And so I shared this diagram and talked through all the different virtues and things. And after the presentation, one of the sisters who was the chair of our system member, she came up to me and she said, Mary, I can't think of a better way to introduce yourself to a room full of nuns. But what that did for me, Darren, was it made me realize how blessed I have been. That formation was on, I was born in a Catholic hospital sponsored by the Sisters of St. Francis. I mean, and from that point on primary school, high school, I had sisters that influenced me in college and grad school. So I realized that's not our current environment anymore. Even in Catholic health care, the sisters are no longer in many of the ministries. They're no longer part of it or visible or even on the sponsor, and that the successors of those sisters are. And so avail yourself, I would say to leaders in Catholic health care, talk to your mission leader. Avail yourself of some of the opportunities, be willing to be part of a cohort program. The cohort programs are great because you have an instant community that you're part of and you journey together. And one of the things that my friends and my mentors and formation have always stressed is as a leader, as a mission leader, and all of us in Catholic health care are mission leaders.
Darren Henson (46:29):
Yes,
Mary Hill (46:29):
As a mission leader, you have to be doing your own spiritual work in order to be effective. So yes, you can facilitate and teach, and you can be very effective in the technical aspects of your position. And if you're not continuing to do your own spiritual work, you will not be effective or won't be as effective.
Darren Henson (46:50):
Yeah. And Mary, thank you. Thanks for also encouraging not just us at CHA, but all of us, whether formally or informally, to be of support to one another, to be intentional about creating a spiritual community, a community of support like you were describing amongst other folks who are iconographer and who are exploring and experimenting with different icons. That's something that we can and we do, and we can continue to strengthen across Catholic health care, is being intentional about creating that spiritual community. So thank you so much for sharing a bit of your own journey of helping us to see the expansiveness that a spirituality can open us up to. So next time any of us go out into the prairies, into the vast openness, if you will, of an infinite horizon, whether it's in the Midwest or whether it's in the desert, we might be reminded of some of these incredible experiences and thoughts that you have shared with us here today. So thanks a million, Mary. We appreciate you so much.
Mary Hill (48:01):
Thank you, Darren. This has been a joy.
Darren Henson (48:04):
Likewise.